Why Do Men Need Dread Game?

A wife of noble character who can find?
She is worth far more than rubies.
Her husband has full confidence in her
and lacks nothing of value.
She brings him good, not harm,
She selects wool and flax
and works with eager hands.
She is like the merchant ships,
bringing her food from afar.
She gets up while it is still night;
she provides food for her family
and portions for her female servants.
She considers a field and buys it;
out of her earnings she plants a vineyard.
She sets about her work vigorously;
her arms are strong for her tasks.
She sees that her trading is profitable,
and her lamp does not go out at night.
-Proverbs 30: 10-18


To many new members to the Red Pill or Manosphere, the idea of Dread Gaming your wife brings about mixed emotions. While the initial principles actually seem harmless and rather productive, the idea of “dreading” and “gaming” your wife comes across as manipulative, shady, and coercive. I have mentioned in previous installments of this series that the steps prescribed are intended to restore balance to a marriage, it is still often met with apprehension by many newcomers who aren’t fully acquainted with the intent of the process.

In this article, we’re going to discuss what caused the rise of systems such as Dread Game, the Red Pill, and the Manosphere as a whole.

Shifts in the Balance of Power

With the steady rise to power feminism has enjoyed, women’s role in society and behaviors have dramatically changed. Much like government policies, this shift has had its own -arguably- unintentional consequences. Each shift made on the scales has dramatically altered our culture’s landscape. Most women, and a large majority of unwitting men, praise these changes as progress towards a better world. But the truth however, paints a much bleaker future.

Below are some major policies and cultural norms that have greatly shifted in recent decades that have shattered traditional marriages and increased animosity between the sexes. Where the once was harmony, there is now turmoil and power struggles. The list below is going to sound like a list from a MRA site, but that is not my intent. The intent is to merely to list the afflictions so that men may know how to better tackle the hurdles LTR/marriages present and why Dread Game evolved. Treat it as a (very) brief history lesson so that you learn from the mistakes of the past.

  • No-fault divorce: In my opinion, this was the crack that opened the dam for many other of our societal ills. With women no longer needing a legitimate reason to dissolve their wedding vows (abuse, neglect, etc.), hypergamy ran rampant as women’s short-term desires overrode their long-term commitments.
  • Child custody laws: As divorce rates increased and the lines over who should get the child blurred (If the father was abusive or neglectful of his familial responsibilities, it was obvious who would get the children…but now?), society scrambled to determine who should be awarded custody of the children of these failed marriages. Sadly, this is where society has not caught up with the times as the mothers still attain primary custody of the children by an overwhelming margin even if the father was an equally suitable parent and provider.
  • Divorce rape: Not much to say on this one. If the wife is more likely to be awarded custody of the children, the father is the one usually left paying for child support and jumping through many other financial hoops while not being equally represented in his own children’s life.
  • Female financial independence: Rather than being a direct issue on its own, this exacerbates the issue of No-fault divorce as women are no longer reliant on the husband to be the primary provider of the family while she raises the children and tends to the home. This break in the symbiotic relationship between husbands and wives has empowered many of the toxic sentiments we see in women today (“Don’t need no man!”). Government welfare programs make this issue even worse as even if the wife isn’t gainfully employed, she knows that she can rely on the government to sustain her.

    The Yin-Yang of Marriage

    Men and women were created to have significantly different roles in the family unit. While men tend to be more assertive, commanding, assertive, risk-takers, women tend to lean on the side of submissive, nurturing, and risk-averse.

    Put another way, men are fire and women are water; yin and yang.
    This creates a balance between the two extremes that makes life and growth possible. Too much of one or the other and chaos and desolation ensue. We have seen this lately as women increasingly take on more masculine roles and traits while men become increasingly effeminate. We are stuck somewhere in the middle, where neither sex are optimizing their God given traits to maximum effect.

    Women make poor men and men make poor women. This isn’t sexist or outdated thinking. This is truth on a deeply biological level that can be traced back to our ancient ancestors. The more we see the yin and yang switch, the more chaotic and broken down society will become.

    How Dread Game Fixes This Shift

    Dread Game is nothing more than men re-establishing their masculinity. It promotes confidence, assertiveness, dignity, discipline, and the desire to improve oneself to become a better husband and father for his family. He becomes the leader that he was made to be on a genetic level.

    I hold no delusions of government policies or the liberal trends of sexual promiscuity and female “empowerment” reversing any time in my lifetime. However, this isn’t the purpose of Dread Game. Rather, Dread Game was always meant to work on a micro level. As the man assumes the throne, leading his family with confidence and competence, his wife will no longer feel the need to adopt masculine traits and will be able to do what her biology dictates. Simply put, as the man becomes more masculine, the woman will naturally follow his lead and become more feminine in turn. This balancing of nature makes both parties happy as they are now able to do what they do best.

    For those of you still on the fence about the term “Dread Game” and its negative connotation, I submit an alternative wording: Value Creation. After all, that is all that the steps of Dread Game do – create intrinsic and extrinsic value on the part of the husband. You are becoming more fit, more decisive, more confident, and more capable. As you up your game, your wife realizes that she needs to up hers as well or be left in the dust.

    If your marriage isn’t where you want it to be, ask yourself one simple question…

    What have you got to lose?
    Read through the first six levels (located on the top menu) and give it a solid six to eight months of concerted, diligent effort. The first six levels pose no risk to you and if you find that it doesn’t work for you, you can drop it at any time. That being said, I’m confident after the results you’ll see there’s no chance in hell you’ll drop it.

Author: Jak

Jak, married and father of three, seeks to help the Red-Pill Community take its next step past the petty cynicism and ineffectual anger. While he recognizes that men are significantly handicapped by the modern legal system and culture, he doesn't accept that traditional marriage is untenable in today's social climate. Rather, men must be willing to adapt to this new world by implementing new tactics and approaches to maintaining a balance of power. Jak is here to provide you with these lessons.

150 thoughts on “Why Do Men Need Dread Game?”

            1. I could write that article.
              Step One: Take Family Camping for 45 Days
              Step Two: 10 seconds into realizing you are camping kill yourself
              Donezo. Family safe.

              1. its a unique idea- basing a vacation on a movie. i wouldnt want to base mine on Mosquito Coast though

              1. “Hey kids! lets go build an ice making machine in Guatemala! Its should only take 2 weeks!”

  1. Excellent article. Like that old adage “you don’t wear boxing gloves to a knife fight ” we have been playing on an uneven field for some time. Perhaps down the road when divorce law, feminist media and the like are more balanced, we can relax a bit.

    1. I think when we get to that point Jim, we must make sure that we teach young boys the cancerous nature of weak men and letting women off the hook for everything. Relaxing will ensure the Hydra grows another head.

      1. Perhaps I misspoke. I was meaning relaxing the posturing and viewing your wife as an opponent rather than a partnership. It was 5 AM in my neck of the woods when I made that comment, sue me.

    2. Didn’t see your comment before I made mine, but this is correct. You need dread game because your wife is happily running it on you all the time. This shouldn’t come as a surprise to anyone as women will seek any advantage they can get, and to be honest, a wife has as much self interest in your good behavior as you do in hers. As with game generally, it applies elsewhere in life too. My kinds don’t get out of line because they fear that I may whip their asses. My employer doesn’t fuck with me because he fears that I could drop everything, walk out and take many of his clients with me. Etc… So dread game is just a reality, in all areas of life, including marriage, and you fail to use it at your peril.

      1. It’s leverage in a bargaing position. If your emloyer or wife threatens you and you calmly respond as a man who has options (they cannot see), they chill out quick.

    3. I appreciate that you used “when.” Things are unbalanced at the moment as our society attempts to resist our natures, but that’s a very unstable system.

      They say that weak men produce bad times, and bad times produce strong men. My casual observation of the young in college would confirm that boys and girls are increasingly dissatisfied by the lack of unity and violation of their basic natures. This, I expect, will push them toward what we call the red pill, and with their aid we will be able to start restoring the balance.

      I may not be a fan of mysticism, but the whole Yin-Yang cycle of balance does have its merits.

      1. “but the whole Yin-Yang cycle of balance does have its merits.”
        What is this? AKC going the ROK way? Everything about running off to south east asia?????

            1. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea [Israel] flee unto the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

              – Jesus

              Even the “King of the Jews” told his followers to leave Israel.

              1. I know waaay too many Christians who’re so far up Israel’s ass it ain’t even funny. I’m here like, “So, I guess your reading comprehension is piss-poor at best.”

          1. oh I thought “Yin Yang” was just a local dialect word that meant the phillipines.

      2. I would like to go back in time to the fall of Greek or Roman empires to see if they had a red pill equivalent when the bulk of their societies went all gay.

            1. If future mainstream historians are studying The Rational Male, it probably means that our little insurgency would have won. If that book ever goes mass-market either a) the vaunted “feminine mystique” will be fully disintegrated and manginas will be a thing of the past, or b) men will be puss out and blue pill themselves with full knowledge of their self destruction.

              I used to think that there were *a lot* more high-quality/high-potential guys out there, twisted around by their miseducations and waiting for us to help them see the light. Now, I am less sure how many are out there who we can actually reach and help.

              1. Those who reach their thirties mired in the Blue Pill are all but beyond help. I hate to say it that way, because I’ve known a couple to recover, but so many build their identities upon these destructive ideas and, without a major ego-death event of some kind, they won’t change (see also: John Scalzi).

                The young and the reluctant beta (those who are naturally more alpha but “go along to get along”), though, are recoverable. The young are still malleable, which is why the modern system keeps them in indoctrination camps for so long, and the reluctant betas are alphas looking for guidance back to the light.

        1. Rome collapsed under its own weight for sure, but Greece fell because they were conquered. Blame Philip the Macedon who, despite sounding like he is, is totally not a dinosaur.

          1. Yes, the Greeks finally were conquered, but a lion will seek out the lame wildebeest to attack, not the healthy ones.

          2. Greece is an interesting case, as various states fell for various reasons. Sparta all but died out, in part due to their hierarchy – there were hundreds of slaves for every true Spartan, and these Spartans were limited by restricted breeding and an ancient limit on how many “true Spartans” there could be at any given time.

            Many states were consumed by Athens through financial and political power. The Delian League was sort of like the EU in ancient Greece, and Athens used its influence over this organization to essentially consume the member polises into its empire.

            Also worth noting, Socrates saved Athens from itself. He brought philosophy back after a period of what was essentially nihilism, encouraging the Athenians to question their presuppositions and seek truth. This could be seen a red-pilling event.

            1. nice quick run down. You got the gift of pith there taig.
              The Socrates story is even more interesting when you realize his massive influence over a young Alcibiades.
              Socrates pulled the very cool coup off of saving Athens from both a negative form a nihilism while at the same time shitting on religious myth.

  2. Let me put this a different way – dread game is something women are already using on men through all of the mechanisms listed above. It is foolish to play a game where both sides aren’t playing by the same rules, unless you want to be on the losing side. That’s why you need dread game.

      1. Maybe (be careful of common law marriage), but beside the point. Dread game also works on girlfriends, flings, ONS, etc…

        1. there are ways around the common law rules. You can put the electrical bill in her name or have her sign a lease agreement and in court unless she can prove that you actually had a relationship, she was just a roommate.

          1. I honestly don’t have enough experience with it to know one way or the other besides knowing it is out there. I don’t live in a state that recognizes it, so I don’t worry about it too much. That said, the real problem these days is that judges don’t give a fuck what the law is, and a judge can fuck up your world with the stroke of a pen. When you see stories where courts will refuse to rescind paternity even where all parties, including the woman, admit that the guy isn’t the father, I’m not optimistic that similar idiocy couldn’t happen in the area of marriage.

            1. “a judge can fuck up your world with the stroke of a pen”

              This is why I demanded my ex give a full accounting of all of her assets, including her automobile and her gemstones and jewelry. She neglected to list those things on the first declaration.

              It wasn’t HER that I was worried about in the divorce. The ex wanted no support from me and I wanted no support from her. My worry was what if some feminist JUDGE decides to take what should be an open and shut divorce case and make an example out of me. In that case, I wanted all of the ex’s assets listed, to show that she wasn’t as poor as she was making herself out to be on the first draft.

  3. no fault divorce in the soviet union was such a disaster that stalin did away with it, yet it was introduced into the US only a few decades later…almost like certain people wanted to wreck our country…

    1. The infiltration of Soviet agents into our educational and legal system from the 1930’s forward is no big secret, although apparently it’s forbidden to talk about for some reason.

      1. Ive seen old newspaper headlines from the ’40s saying the soviets were planning just that-guess we were preoccupied with the war. think youll appreciate this(if you didnt know it already): I came across the Fabian’s logo- its a wolf(or a fox?) wearing a sheep’s skin…these people sure love their symbolism

      2. The book “witness” by Whitiker Chambers reveals the have been there a long time. They are stilled burrowed in the body politic.

        1. Yep. Lots of people do the “If I had a time machine I’d go back and kill Hitler” thing, but personally I think that I’d hit the late 18th to early 19th century and literally wax all of the nascent movements that led to the creation of socialism. Imagine a world where that bullshit was never even conceived of, where America continued down the path *as founded* and what kind of world(s) that would be. These leeches have literally (Hitler) derailed humanity’s progress and are hell bent on destroying everything good about mankind.

          1. If you could have offed Marx, some other connected, lazy idiot would come up with it. Socialism is born from greed and sloth, from the desire to have your needs met without having to work – if they work and profit from their work, they would not favor Socialism.

            Not to say I wouldn’t go back and flick a grenade into a meeting of the Frankfurt Scholars or plug John Dewey if I had a chance. Hitler represents a relatively minor threat by comparison.

  4. The whole of game is a quiver stocked with various different aspects, tools and strategies. Dread game is among the most important arrows in that quiver for anything even approaching a LTR. Good article.

    1. doesn’t work when there are beta orbiters feeding her ego, hot alphas tickling her feelers, no fault divorce (as the author mentions), and the now defunct concept of slut shaming.

      1. Betas mean nothing to women romantically. Lots of guys think that because a woman has 1200 beta orbiters that she has “options” but she’d rather cut off her own hands than date one of them. So they don’t count. I walk to the front of the line when I approach a woman, she could have a legion of betas all sitting around fawning on her, but I guarantee that she only sees me.

        1. In the situation you describe, when it comes to initial attraction, the betas get completely ignored. I’ve seen the situation digress in either direction during relationships. I just had a friend who was dating an, older so-called lady, albeit, 38 year old, hot body. He got so tired of her random emotional tirades that he threatened to leave. So in revenge, she had a beta male orbiter that she once briefly dated, come to her house, bang her, and sent my friend the pictures of them in bed together. This was 2 weeks ago.

          1. That’s an act of self loathing and revenge though, not the typical situation. A woman spurned will call down hell on earth to destroy her lost love, you can take that to the bank. But in a normal day to day thing where there are 1200 betas and some hot alpha struts by, the betas fade to black on her screen, every single time.

            1. for sure, it could be a smaller percentage, I do not know. The hamster wheel behaves erratically when there is an electrical short and after what I witnessed, I wonder just how many men have experienced that. The orbiter is back in love with her and now asking her to move to California with him.

        2. “Betas mean nothing to women romantically. Lots of guys think that
          because a woman has 1200 beta orbiters that she has “options” but she’d
          rather cut off her own hands than date one of them”

          Agree 100%.
          Add Omegas too.
          They might bang them for money or other reasons of necessity, but they will NEVER love them or give themselves to them heart. mind and soul.
          I know from whence I speak.

          BTW, I hope you alphas realize how lucky you are.
          Yeah, I know, lots of hard work goes into it, but still, I hope you realize how lucky you guys are to have that kind of life.
          Lots of us work hard, real hard, but will never have that. No jealousy, only truth.

      2. I think your life would significantly improve, along with your success with women, if you stopped viewing game as just a handful of cheap PUA tricks and one-liners. Game is not putting on a furry top-hat and aviator goggles.

        1. I wear a pair of Serengeti Aviators . They are nice glasses and I get complimented on them quite a bit. While there are certain aspects of my romantic and sex life I would like to improve, I have never complained about my life in general.

    1. Eh, I’m gonna have to say that men would do the same thing. A super hot model dies, is in a body bag, is not mangled or anything and I’m betting you that the male nurses/orderlies/doctors are going to take a peek.

    2. Honestly, what is the problem here? I’m being serious – who was hurt by this? Nurses can’t even talk about shit they see at work? That’s fucking retarded.

      Suppose the dude wasn’t dead, but needed some immediate treatment to save his life. Nurse 1: Help! Patient 3688268599 needs an emergency procedure!!! Nurse 2: Who? Nurse 1: The one with the big cock! Nurse 2: I’ll get right on it!! (double entendre intended).

      I joke, but it’s not inconceivable that identifying information could save lives when seconds count. Penalizing people for it strikes me as incredibly stupid since it’s not like they posted pics of the dude’s junk on the internet or something.

      I may reconsider if I learn that the nurses were all male.

      1. On the outside looking in, it does seem pretty screwed up but I’m in agreemement with you for the most part. There’s a lot of professions out there where things like this happen and to someone who isn’t involved, it’s pretty bizarre and people take offense. For example, it was common (maybe still is?) for soldiers after battles to loot the bodies of enemy corpses. I guess because it’s a dead body it makes it “sacred” or something.

        1. In Iraq, we routinely searched corpses for actionable intelligence. Occasionally, things from the bodies were taken. I agree that outsiders would probably think that’s disgusting. But that’s just war. My guys weren’t chopping off fingers or stuff like that. I don’t give a fuck if they keep some republican guard beret.

          1. Waste not, want not. It seems oogy to me, but then again I know for a fact I’d be frisking corpses in a survival situation, so I reckon I’ve drawn a line somewhere.

      2. “Multiple staff members viewed the victim while he was incapacitated, including after he was deceased,”

        Well, he really wasn’t dead when they started doing it. I don’t know, I have to think about it some more.

        So, say they did post pictures on the internet. Now 45 million people know instead of six. Is there some threshold to the number of voyeuristic people that know that makes it bad?

        1. Not necessarily. I think sending it to one person outside the hospital could be wrong. But when I go to the hospital, I expect that lots of people, including nurses, will see me naked.

          I agree that there are fine lines here, but to me, this just seems wrong. It’s not like they were fondling the guy or something.

          Put another way – in my younger years, we always had a system to signal each other when a hot chick came in so that we could all swing by to ogle at her. I don’t think we did anything wrong. Had we been posting pics to social media, I might agree it crossed the line. But if you walk into a joint, I don’t think you have much of an expectation that the people who work there won’t be able to look at you. Just throwing ideas out there, but I was also under the impression that doctors routinely show off unusual patients to help the learning process in the hospital. So I almost think that in a hospital, you have an expectation that if you are somehow unusual you may attract lots of attention.

      1. True enough, but you can’t deny his name has Dread in it so, ya know, sometimes we can just let it be

  5. I want to show you guys how needy women act on seeking arrangement vs post number pulling or on Tinder ,etc..Women don’t like “games” when it pertains to financial gains but are happy to play them under normal dating circumstances when the options favor them. Check out this convo with a chick I just had a few minutes ago. Look at how angry she gets when I the situation favors me.

    1. So what is a typical arrangement with these toys? Is there a sliding scale such as a regular prostitute ie. blowjob $50, anal $250, chest shitting $400, etc?

      1. LMAO… If you plan to rip them off, then offer them the world and don’t deliver (fake money, run out the door of THEIR apartment, etc..). If you want one to stay for 2+ dates, offer the going rate which is $300 for a whole day per date. Usually I can get 3-4 bangs with a 9-10 per date . They come over to my house, I pretend to care about them, grill a few steaks, buy cheap wine…. before banging them. After the 3 rd date usually over a period of a month, I go on to the next. They get quite angry once you dump them.

    2. What a gross personality. No effort to seduce you at all, no charm or pleasant-ness. Guess these are whores, not courtesans.

      1. 2 years ago, when I first created an account, they would go out of their way to show you a good time on the first, non-paid date, even sometimes offering free “test rides”. Now they want instant results and an iron clad arrangement.

        1. Years ago, I had the pleasure of meeting an old Russian courtesan (at a wedding, of all places), way way past the wall/fertility/attractivness. Know what she did? She ran Game on me, Old World Courtesan Game, with all her professional conversational skills. It was fucking *delightful.* Easily the most fun and vibrant conversation I have ever had with a woman in casual company. Her social skills were masterful, and even with the full understanding that I was being gamed by 60y/o woman, I couldn’t help how great a time I had. I was in awe of the way she commanded the interaction, owning the frame and making it a place I wanted to fit into– I’ll never be that good.

          These “arrangement” chicks seem to offer you nothing but their bodies, and they do it as callously as if they were their own pimps.

          1. My 70 year old aunt is that way she will drink shots with you and talk about her travel adventures and even introduce you to other women .

    3. She’s not angry. Where in that text conversation do you see anger? You are projecting. She was looking for something transactional and you PUA’d her. She didn’t get any tingles and felt like you were wasting her time.

      1. My point is that the women want results fast when it comes to them gaining an advantage, $$ funds $$, but are willing to string men along for a ride when the roles are reversed. She didn’t even bother to engage me. I did this intentionally to demonstrate this. I had no idea I was projecting. Wait, what am I projecting?

        1. You’re projecting male thinking and male traits onto a female. It’s like saying a bear growled at you because you were wearing the jersey of a football team he didn’t like. No, he growled at you because he’s a fucking bear.

          1. yes you are correct. I was pointing out the double standard. I didn’t say I expect women to act or think like we do. I am thinking of scamming that particular girl in reality.

            1. What happened in that text exchange is exactly the same thing that happens when you are out at the bar and see a girl from across the room that you think is a 7, but when you walk over and say hi to her, you realize she is a 5. You tell her to have a good night and you move on.

              1. “What happened in that text exchange is exactly the same thing that happens when you are out at the bar and see a girl from across the room that you think is a 7, but when you walk over and say hi to her, you realize she is a 5. ”

  6. Make friends with a family law attorney (or better yet work in it directly) so you know the ins and outs and won’t get screwed. Knowing she doesn’t have the backing of the law anymore does away with the divorce threat.

    1. That made me think of a relevant issue. While I was initially against prenups, I wonder if it might be a good idea for men to start implementing these as standard practice, at least until the laws become more balanced so a woman can’t screw over a men for nearly all he’s worth just because he doesn’t give her the vapors anymore.

      1. I’ve heard that prenups are often invalidated in court in favor of the woman. It’s probably a good idea, practically speaking, but if a judge can just arbitrarily throw it out what value does any contract have?

        Apparently there are a few rules you have to follow if you want your prenup to remain valid: you need to sign it well before the wedding (so the judge can’t declare duress), avoid basically any penalties (they call these “unfair clauses” and nullify the contract), and say absolutely nothing about custody and child support. Maybe you could try to add those as separate contracts before or after, but all-in-all the justice system is very unbalanced and will do whatever it can to screw you.

        1. If you are a sufficiently wealthy fellow, her attorney will be more than happy to dismantle the prenup to the best of his/her ability– racking up billable hours on both sides the whole whole.

          1. I just pulled up a post from 2013 on the Institute for Legal Reform which says the US spends more than 150% more than European countries on legal expenses (as a percentage of GDP, so it’s a stupidly high number).

    2. Although it is above my pay scale, I would love to see some divorce law advice articles. If not for me, for my brothers out there. Prenups, child custody, alimony, what state to marry or divorce in, etc.

      1. The problem is that it’s confusing and state specific. Different rules on prenups, what is marriage property, support guidelines, etc. Our courts have a lot of free, laymen level pamphlets and guides to the law. Dudes should check their state court websites.

        1. good to know. I suppose if your marriage is on the rocks, it might pay to move there, or is it where you signed the marriage contract?

          1. don’t know the answer to that one. I didn’t pay any during my divorce. I also eventually got full custody of my son. I didn’t fight it the first go around.

              1. She’s a lawyer too… This so called “Gaming” her did no good. Nothing I did was good enough. Even punching her didn’t help. She even allowed me to cheat for a while every weekend until she was asked why I do not come to all the attorney parties by HER friends. When she disallowed me to even cheat, I had to leave. This is why I do not buy most of this “game” theory. Some women are just downright crazy and will ruin your life no matter how much _______ you have .. (Fill in the space with confidence, balls, toughness, game,etc)

                1. Game is very much rooted in psychology. It will never be 100%, but the goal is to note the cause and effect and determine trends based on that info.
                  I could walk down the street and point a gun at random people demanding they give me a high five. Most will give me the high five, but I’ll inevitably come across someone who will try to beat the shit outta me.

                2. Yeah, we can control 95% of women using dread and other elements of game. The other 5% of women are beyond control, particularly if they’re intelligent AND crazy. My ex (and yours too?) was that way — there was no man on earth that could tame her. Her parents couldn’t do it either.

                  1. I’ll argue with you that you can’t control them unless they have something substantial to lose by you walking away . It’s happened to me maybe twice .

    1. of the 8 distinct people I can make out in this screen cap there is not one of them that I feel is anything other than contemptible.

  7. Hi guys, I just found this site for the first time. I don’t have anything noteworthy to add except I’m bummed lolknee and GhostOfJefferson aren’t able to post on Return of Kings anymore, but I’m glad they are still active on here. Those guys are SO awesome!!!

    I’ll continue to check this site out now that they are commenting here.

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