The 12 Levels of Dread: Levels 7-12

Today we’re going to close out the 12 Levels of Dread series and cover the last 6 levels of Dread Game.  If you haven’t read the previous installments, you can click here to start from the beginning in order to get caught up with what is Dread Game and the levels leading up to here and now.

Now there’s a big reason why I’m going to condense these last 6 Levels into one article and also try to extract the essence of these levels in order to provide some additional value for those who are following these guidelines in order to help bring balance and harmony back to your marriage.

A Quick Recap

Before we get started, let’s review what we have discussed thus far.

Dread Game’s key tactic is focusing on significant self-improvement in order to show your wife that you’re a man of status.  The goal of this is to tap into her subconscious where her desires for obtaining a high quality mate lies and direct those passions towards you.

By doing things such as learning to pass her shit tests, getting in shape, learning new skills and concepts, picking up new hobbies that don’t include her, teaching your wife to respect you if she wants your attention, improving your style, and gaming your wife, you are showing her that YOU are the catch and that she needs to up her game.

These tactics all tie in well to my last article of attracting people to you instead of constantly chasing after others.  By doing so, you’re pulling your wife into your frame as opposed to staying in hers.

The reason this is called Dread Game is likely two-fold:

  1. It’s causes a feeling of anxiety in your wife that you might find someone better.
  2. It sounds edgy and catchy.

Personally, I don’t care what it’s called and it could very well be called something more benign if you don’t like thinking of “dreading” your wife.  I myself fall into this category as I don’t believe keeping your wife in a constant state of negative feelings like dread of losing you is conducive towards a harmonious marriage, but the title of this series was labeled the 12 Levels of Dread so that’s what we’re going to stick with for this series.

Levels 7-12

Now here’s where I really take issue with this 12 step program.  Whereas the first six levels is centered around self-improvement and reconnecting with your wife, the last six levels begins taking on a darker tone – namely varying degrees of infidelity.  Just so you know exactly what I’m talking about, I’m going to list out levels 7 through 12 real quick.

  • Level 7: Begin approaching and flirting with other women.
  • Level 8: Flirt with other women, like the waitress at your favorite restaurant, in front of your wife.
  • Level 9: Speak plainly with your wife about your needs – This one is pretty self-explanatory and is actually one I agree with.
  • Level 10: Issues ultimatums to your wife – I’m kind of iffy on this one and should be used as a last resort.  Chances are you are already heading towards a divorce if you are this far along.
  • Level 11: Get a plate on the side.
  • Level 12: Nuke her from orbit.  Tell her you got a plate on the side and you don’t care if she stays or goes.

As you can imagine, Levels 7, 8, 10, 11, and 12 are not ideal for a healthy and happy marriage.  If you’ve gotten up around to levels 7 or 8 -and especially level 11 and 12- you might as well call it quits and sign the papers for divorce since the marriage will likely be on the decline if your wife no longer feels like you are being loyal.

The key problem with the last half of the 12 Levels of Dread is that they’re not bringing you and your wife closer together, but rather they’re creating walls between you two.

The Essence of Levels 7-12

So what value can we glean from these last six levels if we’re not going to put them into practice?

I believe the takeaway for this last half of the 12 Levels of Dread can be summarized with the 2 C’s:

  1. Charisma
  2. Confidence

In the original 12 Levels of Dread, you would be practicing both by learning to seduce other women as well as strongly asserting yourself to your wife.  As we’re aiming to preserve marriages, however, this approach doesn’t jive very well with our own values so we can’t really recommend it.  If the first six levels of Dread Game, in conjunction with our Love & Respect series, isn’t working, then you may just need to cut your losses.

So how can you build your charisma and confidence?  Well confidence has been covered ad nauseum with the red pill community, but the basics include inserting yourselves in uncomfortable situations and forcing yourself to adapt, being more assertive and learning to speak up when you’d normally stay quiet, and building a better self-image.

Charisma is a trickier subject to cover, but a few beginner steps is to learn the art of storytelling and public speaking.  It’s hard to resist a good story and people, including your wife, will be drawn to an enthralling story or joke.  Contrary to popular belief, charisma can be learned with some diligent study and practice.


As I alluded to earlier, if you’re not seeing results after a year of consistent improvement utilizing Levels 1-6 of the 12 Levels of Dread and employing the Love & Respect lessons, you probably have some hard choices to make in your near future.

Sadly, feminism has polluted many modern relationships and made some women nearly impossible to achieve a harmonious relationship with.

That being said, couples who have good intentions and truly want to make their marriages work can overcome clashing egos and personal values to bring balance back to their marriages.  Even in the most dire circumstances, there is light at the end of the tunnel if both spouses have a desire to make it work, even if that desire is but a small, weak flame.

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Author: Jak

Jak, married and father of three, seeks to help the Red-Pill Community take its next step past the petty cynicism and ineffectual anger. While he recognizes that men are significantly handicapped by the modern legal system and culture, he doesn't accept that traditional marriage is untenable in today's social climate. Rather, men must be willing to adapt to this new world by implementing new tactics and approaches to maintaining a balance of power. Jak is here to provide you with these lessons.

370 thoughts on “The 12 Levels of Dread: Levels 7-12”

  1. “Now there’s a big reason why I’m going to condense these last 6 Levels into one article”:

    yeah. it’s called laziness.

    1. Your handle is “Obnoxious Troll” and your avatar is a little green troll, and you upvote all your own comments… and I’m the pathetic “try hard”?

      I’m beginning to think you really are a 12 year old kid.

      EDIT: I had to reply to this post since you deleted your other post calling me a pathetic “try hard” like a pussy.

      1. my comment got marked as spam cause the mods here are sensitive snowflakes.

        and yes, acting like a keyboard warrior online is pathetic

        1. “my comment got marked as spam cause the mods here are sensitive snowflakes.”
          Wrong. We have stringent anti-spam filters to block out the ad bots. Any legit comments, whether positive or negative are approved, even if we have to approve them manually.

          1. Might be a question for Cynic but, if you know, are the filters provided by Disqus or do you have a different tool on the back end? I’m wondering (if it is Disqus provided) what manner of fine tuning they allow you to tinker with. Merely curious, I’m not out to give suggestions for “improvements”.

            1. I actually sent Cynic a message to see if we can ease up the filters as we had a lot of comments marked as spam from regular commenters, including WB Fitness. Odd to say the least.

              1. It’d be funny if it was a peculiar phrasing or other manner of speaking that some people use that trips the filter. Something that most people don’t normally do, but spam comments tend to feature.

                1. I checked for any specific words that would send comments to the spam folder but didn’t see any. I’m not tech savvy enough to figure it out so we’ll have to wait and see what Cynic says.

        2. I can guarantee you none of the mods here marked that comment as spam. In fact, if it had been a decent insult, the mods here would have fucking upvoted it. And if it had been a serious kidney shiv, they might even have made it the Featured Comment.

          1. Eh, featuring brutal insults and funny comments is more J. Nyx’s bag. I prefer featuring more insightful comments. Yin and yang.

        3. I really don’t care about anybody’s pointless rants, but aren’t you just acting out? I just come here for the comedy and I even make fun of myself. Who cares? None of us have anything to prove behind a computer or otherwise.

            1. that’s okay..we all need a pickmeup sometimes, adderall, amuse myself, cocaine, caffeine..whatever works bro

      2. He could be Roosh. What else does he have to do these days? he’s all over his own message boards.

          1. I would think he would be more effective. Roosh would have learned the appropriate trolling tactics during ROKs heyday

              1. You think? I give Roosh props for his meta-trolling, like stirring up the entire country of Canada, but you think he has the fine motor skills for small time comment-section trolling?

                1. Look, I’m not saying he’d be a troll savant, but he’d put a little more effort into it than this. Otherwise it wouldn’t be worth his time.

            1. That graph someone posted yesterday of RoK’s traffic declining after The Purge was really funny.

                1. I think Jim posted it yesterday on the Christmas Vacation thread. But I could be hallucinating.

  2. I agree in respect to marriage. It would be disastrous to create a wall that she may or may not breach. Whole families can be shattered. In the dating scene however, this may be a viable option as you don’t have as much to lose. If you’ve been dating for six months or so, and she is not giving you the respect you want, maybe it would be wise to start flirting around.

        1. I saw it in the drafts section last night, but didn’t have a chance to review it. Will give it a look today if I have time.
          Today is our work’s last day before we close for the New Year break so as you can imagine, it’s pretty chaotic.

  3. Level 7: […] flirting with other women.

    Hold up here. You mean I was supposed to stop doing this upon getting married?

  4. Level 10.. the gas gauge says 2 miles left ; jump out of the car bitch or I’ll push you out .

  5. My thought on using ultimatums on a woman is that you have to use them strategically, and not the same way you would use ultimatums with a man. Using an ultimatum with a man is a rational decision point: do X or else Y. The rational man understands this is a choice, and acts accordingly. If you lay out a “do this, its rationally better for you, or this will happen to you, which is rationally bad for you,” ultimatum, the rational man will (usually) opt for the better choice.

    Women (generally) don’t apply logic or ration to an ultimatum. (To be fair, many men don’t these days, either. An ultimatum is a big drama event for a woman, stirring up all kinds of emotions. It’s not a line in the sand for her, its not a clear choice, it’s an exciting jumble of hamster-rousing emotions. She is just as likely to make the choice that is rationally worse for her (and her family) as she is to make the choice that is rationally better for her… because she is unlikely to apply ration to the situation. She is also a lot more likely to try to have her cake and eat it too, or try to come up with a third option, or just blow up the whole situation with hamstering.

    Also, if you give a woman a rational ultimatum that will have dire consequences for her, sometimes she will choose the bad consequences just as a shit test, to see if you are man enough to enforce the bad consequences, or if you “love” her enough to “spare” her the bad consequences. The downside is that her hamster brain will remember if you let her off the hook, and she’ll think you are weak for doing it, regardless of whether it was done out of your “love” for her or not.

    So be careful using an ultimatum with a woman to force her to make a strategic choice. Consider using an ultimatum with a woman as a way to fulfill her necessary drama-quotient. If she is looking for a fight or stirring up some other shit to get her drama-quotient filled, give her an ultimatum to chew on, instead. Make sure it is an ultimatum where you (and her, and the family) can live with the results of whatever hamster choice she makes. But just be sure to make it loud and dramatic, so she gets the full effect, and you can get back to doing something important for a while.

    1. Good insight and I agree. That’s why I wrote that I’m pretty iffy on issuing ultimatums simply because women are pretty well-known to cut off their own nose to spite their face. The only point I would consider using an ultimatum is if you’ve gotten to the point where you honestly don’t care if she stays or goes. It’s a last ditch hail Mary.

      1. Seriously though, has an ultimatum worked for anyone with a woman?

        If you issue one you have to be able to accept either outcome. Seems they always pick the worse of the two just to see if you will go through with the consequences.

        1. Yep. Pretty much what I said and why I said it’s probably best to only issue them if you honestly don’t care if she stays or goes.

        2. Did I not just write 7000 paragraphs explaining why an ultimatum doesn’t work with a woman? You can’t use an ultimatum with a woman the way you use an ultimatum with a man. See the aforementioned 7000 paragraphs, as set forth herein above.

          1. You did use a (generally) modifier in one of your paragraphs so i was interested to see if we had any outliers.

        3. No, ultimatums do not work.

          Ultimatums can’t work, because they are an acknowledgement that she is already outside your frame. If u are resorting to an ultimatum, chances are you’ve already lost her– she just hasn’t found an exit convenient enough for her, yet.

      2. “because women are pretty well-known to cut off their own nose to spite their face”
        Ultimatums only work when presented to rational mind, cacpable of undersangin “if P then Q” and all that.

    2. IMHO, ultimatums are merely stating the reality of two divergent paths. “Cut up your credit cards, or we will be out of the house” is not an imposition, it is a statement of reality. Continuing on will only lead to a natural consequence. Best to let her make the choice while it is still possible. If the marriage is bad enough that you need to issue the ultimatum, it is at the point that it will fail if she continues bad behavior any further.

      1. My point is, though, that a guy has to think through it before issuing the ultimatum, and he has to understand the high likelihood that she won’t respond to the ultimatum in a rational way. The husband is the one that is ultimately responsible for keeping the family in the house. She doesn’t consider the actual consequences of being out of the house because her hamster won’t let her. She either expects you to “fix it” or she will find someone else who will fix it for her.

        1. Agreed, rationality isn’t one of their strong points typically. I suppose the next step would be to cut up her credit cards for her. Sucks to take away her agency, but if she doesn’t listen she will have consequences.

          1. I think you have a bit more leeway than some of the other guys here because — very much to your credit — you picked a good, traditional woman from a different set of social norms, and you have put in years and years of work to establish the relationship. You seem to have done it the right way from the beginning, reinforcing those traditional norms, and so your situation is less susceptible (although not necessarily impervious) to some of this shit.

            1. I would think so. Best to prune early in the spring. Still, it takes management. My wife and I will read a page or two from various books on maintaining a marriage nearly every night.

        2. One TIME I issued an ultimatum with a hot chick and she immediately went to her backup guy. Even though she regretted leaving, she still did it and when she came back the only thing I could do was bang her one more time. I’m more political now, I try to sell her “MY” idea instead of just acting like a relationship NAZI. With hot chicks, they ain’t got time for ‘dat!

          1. I wonder how much of “rule creation” can be ultimatum. For instance, lets say you meet a woman and start dating her….I don’t think it is such a bad thing to say “you are now with me and you will act that way, you won’t be doing the same kind of stuff you were doing when you were single”

            1. I think that falls more into Level 9 – speaking plainly about your expectations. The ultimatums comes in Level 10 and seems to be generally agreed upon from other commenters that if you’re issuing ultimatums, you’ve already fallen into her frame.

            2. Actually, I think that is hugely important and it is a straight up exercise in frame control. You describe your frame, and she chooses to step into it. That’s not an ultimatum; ultimatums are a *confrontation.* Instead, describing the rules is an *invitation* to enter into your world.

  6. anyone else off and watching The Price is Right? these girls def do squats. they also have male show…casers, or whatever you call em…-1 wind chill in the bigtown btw

      1. All I remember is when he kicked Adam Sandlers ass. best fight scene since Captain Kirk and Abraham Lincoln.

      2. no, but Drew Carey has the BEST JOB ON EARTH. hands down. he probably drives a golf cart to the set from his mansion 0.5 miles away

        1. I think I watched 20 minutes of him hosting TPIR once, thought he was really the wrong guy for the job. Wondered what he had to do to get such a gig, because it wasn’t for competence or appeal.

          1. he musta checked “yes” to the “did you get your pet spayed or neutered?” question on the job application

              1. This response is why you will never, ever be the host of the price is right…barker was an animale nut

                1. Have to be a hot blonde or a dorky guy to be made fun of. I fit in neither of those categories anyway.

        2. You got to think he has Harvey Weinstein’ed a couple of those chicks. If he’s straight, anyway.

                  1. a coworker told me that if a tranny tricked him up to her room he would fuck her so hard in the ass that she wouldn’t be able to walk for 3 days just out of spite. Mind you this from a blue collar former Marine.

              1. I am of the sort that will give new guys the benefit of the doubt. Hell, I even defended Kersey once upon a time.

                Where was I going with this?

                EDIT: Seeing him badger Thales, I recant my statement.

                1. I’m pretty sure this potato fag, Stoic Nihilist and the lame troll kid are all the same 12 year old in his mom’s basement.

                    1. I don’t think Pabst can go very long before totally sperging out. I would be surprised if one of these potato farmers was Pabst.

                    2. thats funny! yeah you’re probably right, he wouldnt be able to help himself posting 10 Simpsons videos on the trot!

              2. what if upvoting your comments is all you needed to reach the featured comment? some of us have goals to meet

      1. the news led into it
        Im off
        its currently 0 with the wind chill
        this beer in my paw aint gonna drink itself

            1. No doubt she is pretty, but I guarantee you if you saw her in an airport lobby without makeup, you wouldn’t notice.

              1. I bet I would notice because she is still probably above average in looks compared to the average hambeast waddling through an airport.

                  1. Cheese, if you are going to keep doing this, could you at least watch some good lesbian porn or something?

                1. You got a point there. It is amazing how many fatties are out there. We are not gym rats by any means, all we do is eat non-processed foods and cut back on the sugar. Neither of us are having weight problems

        1. I mean, WB, but just saying. She’ll look 47 the next morning after you bang all the make-up off her.

    1. I don’t think anybody else in here is watching the soaps today, just saying but, WB.

        1. “Thousand cock stare.”

          The rest are accurate as well. Except the one about traps. They use chemical hair remover.

    2. Makeup and lighting can do a lot to hide a lot. Plus, nothing is hiding that manjaw.

        1. As she appears there she’s not bad really, but yeah, doesn’t really make my socks roll up and down much.

          1. Which is why so many Murkin men are going over to commie land to find women who aren’t huge hambeasts.

                1. You can’t trust those slant eyed chop stick using sauerkraut eating fucks, I hear they make really good radios though.

              1. You know, comparing age for age, you are probably right. Compare these to baby boomers and they may look rougher by having a harder life, but I would bet you they would not be so self centered.

                  1. Not particularly… but I’d fuck one of those old babushkas before I’d fuck a chick with a dick.

                    1. Not with everyone. I am aware of a guy who “hangs out with” a trap because he likes to have a “pretty girl” on his arm. He’s a fat ass who basically plays video games all day, got rich off of daddy’s money so he doesn’t have to work. He’s the client of one of my friends who manages his money. Anyway, he “hangs out with” this trap all the time and says he basically uses “her” as his wingman to help him get laid by real girls. I’ve seen him out with the trap before, and it is a pretty decent trap — it looks female but not like attractive or anything. After a few shots, you might not realize. The dude swears they don’t bang, but after seeming them interacting, I’m pretty sure fat boy is fooling himself into that trap’s ass.

                    2. he’s probably getting condom BJs and doesn’t consider that to be homo since there is a barrier

                    3. Well when you put it that way, I would too…. wait,see that indoctrination has worked on you too, there ain’t no chicks with dicks. Just dudes made up to look like chicks. I don’t care how good he looks, if one touches my junk I’m going to prison.

  7. Jak, I like this Dread Game series. And I really like where you took the second half, looking at these techniques as alarms in your relationship.

    I’d like to add a thought to yours: *if she is not responding to Dread Game, she is not into you.* Use levels 1-6 as a test to see if she actually wants you. By the time you are using the last levels, you’re just priming yourself to get back out on the hunt– it’s likely that she won’t respond, regardless.

    1. Thanks CoP. Agreed on your addition, if you revamp your whole look and lifestyle to one objectively better and you see no improvement whatsoever, then levels 7-12 won’t do anything but cause unneeded drama (minus the speak plainly level). At that point, you’re best bet is to cut your losses and move on, assuming you’re also employing the Love & Respect lessons I’ve been covering.

  8. I’m gonna object to Number 9, “state your needs.” Neediness is unattractive. If a girl you just met smells neediness, she’ll think you’re an incel or worse. If you acknowledge unmet needs to the woman that is keeping you from fulfilling them, you weaken yourself and she’ll despise you for it.

    1. Level 9 is a bit of a balance. Your wife needs to know your wants and needs, but you don’t want to come across as whiny about it. I think the biggest things with this tactic is being confident and unemotional when stating your needs and passing her subsequent shit tests.

      1. It is probably just a framing thing. You can’t frame it as a “need” that you have to have and can only get from her. You have to make it more of an expectation of something you want and if she doesn’t provide it, you will find someone else who will.

  9. No matter what you do, dread game, Game in general, being super apex alpha, etc., nothing trumps Menopause in throwing a wrench into the system and making anything you say, do or think irrelevant. This stuff works pre-menopause to varying degrees, but once that monster hits you’re in the clutches of fate as the dice are rolled. Sometimes you get lucky and nothing really changes, or even improves for the better, sometimes you get really unlucky and that little flower that used to hang on your arm morphs into an unrecognizable being that has gone utterly batshit crazy. And there’s literally nothing you can do about it in the later case, except cut your losses and move on.

    1. “or even improves for the better…”

      Is that even possible?
      Are you speaking from an “attitude” perspective? Maybe they go from a somewhat bitchy, uptight 40-something with “career” aspirations to a pot roast making, cookie baking 50-something grandma? I suppose that could be somewhat of an improvement. I wouldn’t want to bang either, though.

      1. Nah, I know some couples where the woman got way hornier after menopause. I think it can go a lot of different directions, and that’s one of them. If you’re in it to win it for the long haul and don’t intend to divorce, then that’s a good outcome for you if you’re the husband.

        1. ” If you’re in it to win it for the long haul and don’t intend to
          divorce, then that’s a good outcome for you if you’re the husband.”

          Good point.

          1. I know a couple where the wife went that direction. Really changed the direction of the marriage from what I saw. She went from normal suburban housewife to raging sex godess and the guy had a perma smile on his face when relaying the information to a bunch of us other guys about post menopause horniness. Good for him.

    2. wrong. the fact the marriages have worked so well in the past throughout the world is evidence enough that menopause is not the reason for a woman to go “utterly batshit crazy”

      1. The reasons marriages worked out well in the past was due to societal mores preventing women from acting like drunken sailors on shore leave. And they policed themselves. If a girl stepped out of line (acted in an unfeminine manner, gave attention to a “bad boy”, cursed, etc..) her mother, grandmother, aunts and such would kick her little ass into next week.

          1. I do not think he said it in absolute terms. He said it throws a wrench into the relationship like periods, social media, and other hamster wheel short circuiting devices.

              1. You’re entirely missing the context in order to “be right”. Menopause is a crap shoot, but in the past you couldn’t just divorce “just because feelz”, where now you can, and culture also encourages “strong independent womynz doan needs no man”. Grow up and stop being a 12 year old.

                1. women don’t just morph into a different creature once they hit menopause, man. if a woman is attracted to you when she was younger and the relationship is harmonious, then the same state will continue.

                  btw, you mentioned your alpha grandfather a few days ago, are you telling me that their marriage held only because the laws were tighter back then and not because your grandpa was an alpha to begin with?

                  1. “women don’t just morph into a different creature once they hit menopause, man”
                    As GoJ originally said, it’s a mixed bag. I’ve known women that went through menopause fairly gracefully and others who became she-monsters due to the hormonal imbalances that accompanied menopause.

                    1. you see jak, this is my point. these women becoming crazy is a more recent trend. there are many successful marriages both earlier and in the modern day. it makes no sense to say that menopause is some kind of jekyll and hyde chemical formula.

                    2. I don’t really see me making your point at all. When women hit menopause, there’s about a 50/50 chance the hormones send them off the rails into batshit crazy town. Whereas in the past there were many incentives/norms to keep them from doing anything too drastic, like nullifying the marriage, those safeguards to preserving the family have been erased in today’s world. That isn’t to say that every woman who goes she-beast from menopause gets a divorce, but without the safeguards, the chances are MUCH higher.

                    3. 50-50 really? fine, if what you’re saying is true then why didn’t the guys with crazy wives initiate divorce? who’d want to spend the rest of their lives with a crazy hag? you don’t hear any horror stories about that, do you?

                    4. “what you’re saying is true then why didn’t the guys with crazy wives initiate divorce”

                      Once again from the outside looking in.
                      1) Men are loyal. Even I have been loyal to females (guess what job they had) that absolutely did not deserve it.
                      2) That alimony and child support super nuke.

                    5. Yep. Men have an instinctual sense of duty and loyalty. We’re more likely to try and make something work even if it’s a losing battle.
                      What OT seems to be neglecting from this discussion is the wild card inherent in these types of discussions: Human behavior.
                      Everything we discuss revolves around trends and correlations. There’s no “do X and Y will happen” with a 100% guarantee. That’s why even “super alpha guys” can get screwed over by a woman. Being “alpha” isn’t a guarantee. It just improves your odds in this game called Life.

                    6. Quite correct. And the point about hormonal imbalance is that neither Game nor most any kind of non-medicinal intervention is going to help you. You’re dealing with something making her body and mind literally crazy, so the normal rules do not apply. How this is even in dispute baffles me.

                    7. screw this defeatist garbage. it’s like hormones complete override the brain.

                      “You’re dealing with something making her body and mind literally crazy, so the normal rules do not apply”

                      such words only come from the mouth of people who have no control or power over the situation.

                    8. Yep. Exactly what I was saying, before the young inexperienced lad here decided to shit on the thread.

                    9. not a more recent trend – in the Good Old Days, the husband would just beat her into compliance or ship her off to an asylum or monastery

      2. Are you kidding me? ever heard of hot flashes? old age regret? Sometimes women in their 50s regret even being a good wife and mother? YES I have heard this. Some of them think they would have been happier banging a bunch of guys or being a cubicle slave. I have heard a few older ladies say “I worked too hard to please my husband and feed my kids who didn’t appreciate it enough” …

        1. is this anecdotal evidence? these women you mention are clearly in the minority. even in modern america, not every post menopausal woman is “utterly batshit crazy” enough to divorce for no reason. the same point applies to the rest of the world. if divorces are becoming a trend, it is because of changing social values, not menopause

          1. Your mistake, well one of many of your mistakes, is thinking anybody said “every post menopausal woman”. False. Read for understanding the next time before hitting your sneer button, ok?

      3. Idiot. “The past” didn’t have no fault divorce and a “get divorced and then eat pray and love” culture.

        Try to think before you post in the future, this wasn’t even a mediocre troll attempt.

          1. Hit any dating site and the number of 45+ year old divorced women is through the roof.

            1. Even when you don’t want them.
              I was on Match for 3 month.
              Stated clearly in my profile that I was only interested in 18-29 year olds. Got over 200 messages. 199 from women 37 & up. I quit when I got a message from a 52 year old.

              1. I’ve heard that dating sites don’t seem to honor the age requirement much when it comes to mens preference in women. I don’t know if that’s true or not across the board, but it’s what I’ve heard.

                1. They do not. And there is a lot of funny business, such as getting spammed with messages prior to your subscription expiring. Waste of time and money IMO.

                  1. scamming on SA is the best ROI. For $75 per month. I get about 50 phone numbers , screen out half the escorts, and end up scamming 10 of them.

                    1. You have it down to a science.
                      You should write a book or start a blog. Might makes loads of $$$ for yourself.

                    2. at first I paid them, and that didn’t guarantee that women would at least be semi-pleasant. It is too easy to scam them , maybe it just comes naturally for me.

                2. dating sites don’t seem to honor the age requirement much

                  Doing so would hurt profits. Let’s face it, most of their male users probably
                  1. Specify 18-22 as an age requirement, but
                  2. Will fuck anything that moves.

              2. half my messages on SA , on FUCKING SA are from over 35 year olds. They would shame me for not even replying.

                1. I’ve gotten these as well.
                  And half are from Aunt Jemima types as well.
                  My profile clearly states “White or East Asian only”.

              3. Years and years ago i tried match. My mother, of all people, bought me a 3 month subscription. This was 2011 and I know that because Skyrim had just come out. Now I am not a video game guy but I had a pretty serious injury and basically I was on the sofa full of pain meds and with nothing to do.

                A guy I knew told me I should get skyrim. So I get the game and I am texting with some girl from Match. The game was kind of confusing for me at first and I went into some bar and went to talk to someone and accidentally hit the punch button, punched a little girl in the face and had to run away from all these people trying to get him. I am about 10 minutes into playing this game for the first time.

                So I text my buddy. “Hey M. I just was in a bar and punched some little girl in the face and now everyone is trying to get me and i am hiding in a bush what should i do”

                Wrong text. Sent it to the damn girl from match who i had not met yet.

                She sends back “?????”

                I say “look, you just have to believe that this is funny”

                She still met up with me.

                This is the level of quality on dating websites.

            2. or even in my favorite hotel bars downtown. Rumor is that men in their 60s, at a particular locale in Dallas, bring their wives to hotel bars in order to find her a younger lover. The women rationalize this behavior because the kids are grown, she never to got to experience debauchery like younger women do today, the hubby doesn’t perform like he used to, and she needs excitement. I had one friend confirm that he was once a sancho for an older couple.

              1. Do these guys get paid? Like, a whole lot of money? And REALLY need the money?
                Can’t see any other reason why a younger guy would go for that.

              2. That shit really weirds me out. The entire “be a cuck” thing is such a freaking weird ass lame fetish that I still can’t get it from any perspective outside of being the “bull” that’s invited in to take the woman. What fucking kind of man wants to humiliate himself like that? Christ on a popsicle stick, that’s just weird.

                1. In that scenario I wouldn’t want to be the “bull” either.
                  Bang an old bag while some weirdo whacks off looking at your private parts? No thanks!

                  1. Oh right, sorry, I meant for younger couples, yeah, I totally glossed over the age thing. Right, with you there, fucking a 60 something chick that isn’t one’s wife is the height of gross.

          2. My sister did that to her first husband (a likeable, hard working guy who I still consider a friend). She slutted around for a while while she was still OK looking in her mid 30s. And then married a 70 year old multi-millionaire. I still cannot understand how or why that rich old guy would do that to himself. She finally hit menopause at 48 and now at 49 has a pot belly and cellulite that is there for good. The old guy has been divorced twice and made her sign a prenup.
            I suppose that is why she screwed me on the will…

            1. my ex wife went from a demure 19 year old, thin, virgin to an overweight, divorced, semi-alcoholic single mom in less than 7 years.

        1. lol. looks like i pissed on your cereal. alright wiseguy, how many post menopausal women are getting divorced in america? shouldn’t there be a sharp spike once they hit their 50s?

          the rules of game still apply. if a woman divorces a guy, it is the guy’s fault for being a useless loser

          1. You’re an idiot. You literally have no clue what you’re talking about. And you continue with the assumption of “all post menopausal” after being corrected. And of course, it is always the guy’s fault. Thanks Sir White Knight.

            1. thanks for proving you know absolutely nothing. insults are the first and last resort for someone who has no substance at all.

              1. And we’re done talking, your trolling has become boring. You have a great day now, kiddo.

                1. lol. you avoid my questions and call me a kiddo? what’s the matter, you chicken?

                  Have a great day, Uberalpha!

          2. you sound like a PUA who will one day feel the wheels of KARMA hit him like a freight train. Don’t worry you can still the join the club of those with foot-in-mouth disease, we are forgiving.

            1. He sounds precisely like a young dude who has literally no experience in reality outside of what he reads on Roosh forums, honestly. But end of the day, what does he know? Nothing.

              1. I remember reading sosuave day and night in 2004 , stating off having an affair at work with a 6, then going to country bars and banging a 7 in 2006 , meeting an 8 at a titty bar in 2008 during my divorce , then catching the “feels” for another 8 with fake tits in 2009 after which she dumped me for another guy with more money. I thought I was impervious to a woman’s seduction, but that last one got me.

                1. It happens to all of us.
                  Over the years more than one escort has “gotten” to me.
                  Funny how it never worked out.

          3. “the rules of game still apply. if a woman divorces a guy, it is the guy’s fault for being a useless loser”

            Not my observations at all.
            From the outside looking in, females seem to divorce because they can get away with it and know the courts will take care of them. The husband might expect his wife to have dinner on the table when he comes home, instead of her being out with her friends drinking margaritas at TGI Fridays. She will get offended at being yelled at, decide “she doesn’t love him anymore” and then hit him with the child support and alimony bomb.

            1. sure, things have changed. but this site is run by two married guys who are teaching other guys to maintain their marriages. you talk like post menopausal divorce is inevitable, but there are many men who are still happily married past 50. this ain’t russian roulette.

              these women were likely crazy to begin with, or more likely the man became more and more beta as the years progressed.

              1. “You talk like post menopausal divorce is inevitable,”

                Pre-menopausal divorce is just as a bad a bet.
                My life is not perfect by a long shot. Would have loved for things to be different at this point.
                But my life most likely would have been MUCH worse had I been married with the over 50% divorce rates.

                1. Thing is, nobody is talking like it’s inevitable. He’s inventing an argument then knocking it down, which I believe is called a straw man argument.

                    1. Exactly. Throw in bizarre hormone changes that can go any direction and it increases the chances of freevorce. Or, you might find yourself getting laid a lot more with a woman who ten years earlier was only a once-a-week type. It can go any direction, and one of those directions is “I want to destroy everything in life I worked for and loved, get out everybody!” Throw in a culture that encourages this in woman, and badda bing, there you go.

                    2. Speaking from a strictly statistical point of view (because I’m a math nerd), menopause can only INCREASE the likelihood of divorce simply because you’re adding in a new variable to the equation where one or two of the outcomes is negative:

                      Option 1) Nothing changes
                      Option 2) She wants more sex than ever
                      Option 3) She can’t or doesn’t want to have sex anymore
                      Option 4) She goes completely batshit crazy

                      Options 3 and 4 can put a strain on the marriage and God help the poor guy who gets BOTH options as they aren’t mutually exclusive. Like we’ve been saying, it’s not a guarantee for divorce, but it damn sure doesn’t help.

                    3. if that’s true, why have you set up a site advocating marriage then? you run a risk of divorce every single moment and play russian roulette once the wife hits menopause.

                      so you’re telling me that nothing you teach on this site can be used to control the situation? that the magic roll of menopausal dice is what decides the fate of the marriage?

                    4. Our goal here is to provide guidance for men who are married or are wanting to get married someday to INCREASE THE ODDS of making their marriage work. There are no guarantees when human behavior is part of the equation and anyone who tells you so is lying.
                      All the other commenters who are discussing the issue of menopause are discussing increased probabilities which you are misconstruing into guarantees that X,Y, and Z will happen.
                      The only person you can control is yourself. Outside of that, you can only influence and hope for the best.
                      This isn’t defeatism. It’s simply acknowledging the truth of women’s biology as they age and modern laws and societal norms. Part of helping men make an informed decision about whether to get married or not is to give them both the good and the bad so they know all the facts of what MIGHT happen further on down the road.

                    5. Leather jacket, Parliaments….faint odor of drakkar…
                      a roulette wheel that comes out from inside a larger one

                    1. Has anyone ever zoomed in on the diploma from the Wizard of Oz and seen whether it had any additional writing on it? What was it a degree in?
                      Yes, these are the types of thoughts that run through my head when I’m at work, but all our systems are shut down for the year end and I have nothing to do…

                    2. Sounds like me yesterday (off today).
                      We just stood around arguing politics.
                      3 Conservatives vs 2 libs.
                      We kicked their asses.
                      I was the only native born American in that conversation.
                      The other guy is on vacation.

                    3. Authentic German restaurant owned by an Austrian . he’s open only 4 days per week, 4 weeks off in the summer, month long Harley ride in the spring. He’s surrounded by restaurants that are open 24/7 all year round. I do not know how he survives.

                    4. Yep yep.

                      In fact, that reminds me bem, let me sing you a song about my last girlfriend:

                      “Well she laughs and she giggles
                      And her little titties jiggle
                      If she only had a brain….”

              2. I wish things were so simple…You will realize it isn’t, you can minimize the damage with having a strong character, and confidence, but we are still humans, even you.

            2. One look at an alimony payment combined with child support is enough to create a whole lot of “better not leave her” until it becomes way too unbearable. Women have no such incentives to remain loyal.

                1. No question. In fact, women are given a huge incentive to leave in a big way. The courts guarantee alimony, child support and “the house” if you have even one carpet ape together, because she is guaranteed ‘a life to which she has become accustomed’ by law where you as the man are guaranteed the role of wage donkey who better damned well do what he’s told.

        1. Dang man, I thought only chicks did the “You two need to fight” thing.

          1. I’ve never trained in giant Q-Tip combat techniques, unfortunately.

          2. I did that once during spring break. drunk dudes vs a woman, you can guess how that ended…

    1. His conclusion is mostly okay – in as far as a war in the Middle east or against Russia would likely doom Trump to a single term. But I don’t like the route he uses to get there. I’d sacrifice the Russian speaking regions of Ukraine if only to light a fire under the asses of the Europeans, and send a message that they need to step up their defense posture against Russian expansionism. It’d be a much more expensive problem in the long run if we have to go back to Europe large-scale.

      He also doesn’t mention NK once. Merit aside, I think the image NK projects will make it easy to successfully sell a military intervention as a necessity to address a direct threat. So I don’t see engaging with NK militarily a roadblock to a second term. It is possible, though, the actual progression of such a war could hurt him.

      1. “It is possible, though, the actual progression of such a war could hurt him.”

        Can you even imagine the cost of such a thing?
        Launch a strike on NK, then little nutjob starts lobbing SCUDs (or something) at Seoul. ROK/US fires back, and its on. Even without Nukes, that is Iraq x 100.

        Would be better to just wait him out, IMO. Hopefully his starving people take him out themselves. And then perhaps reunification with the South similar to Germany in the early 90s.

        1. The burden of that cost is mostly on SK.

          I have doubts about the cohesiveness and resolve of the NK military to actually fight for NK. They’re mostly being used to maintain the status quo, not preparing to respond to an attack. I think their leadership knows this, too, and manifests in their over-reliance on developing nuclear & missile technology instead of boats, airplanes, and tanks.

          Recall the mass surrender by the Iraqi military in Iraq Round 1. And they were ostensibly well-trained and well-fed. I find a similar outcome for NK quite reasonable to entertain.

          1. Yes, I remember that. They were jumping out of foxholes and thanking the US Army for saving them from starvation.
            And yes, I agree that DPRK has awful conventional weapons. But they do have over 1 million men to send over the DMZ. And they’ll do it because they’ll be machine gunned from behind if they don’t. Would be very, very bloody, IMO. But I am not a military expert/analyst.

      2. would it doom trump to one term if the war started before the next election? I dont think the proles would vote out the current prez if a war was on

        1. So…what’s the latest scoop on The Young And The Restless? Is Victor still gunning for Jack’s company?

          1. I dont know what that means, but it reminds me a soap the young broads loved about 10 years ago- PASSIONS. Dont remember much other than there was an evil midget(really) as a central character

      3. As Peter Hitchens put it, Russia is in a bad state militarily with a GDP equal to that of Italy or Australia. They don’t pose any threat to Europe but you have a couple of turd nuggets such as McCain who is more than happy for a conflict.
        Russia is paranoid and its history does more than justify Putin’s foreign policy.

    2. Many people (including me) are tired of our constant military intervention everywhere. It seems like it’s getting to the point of whenever a shot is fired anywhere in the world, we are supposed to come running and straighten it all out. It’s about time to let somebody else take care of it. We should maintain a force in South Korea just in case because no one else can keep Kim out and that’s been our show now for 60 years. Let the snooty enlightened Europeans worry about the Russians, let the Russians take care of ISIS,encourage the Japanese to change their constitution in order to build up their offensive capability and in time they will take care of Kim and we won’t even have to get our hands dirty.

      1. Ding! Exactly my sentiments as well. Interventionism is a horrible policy and a sure way to drain off all the surplus resources from an empire, which is stupid.

        1. Man it’s mind boggling to think what we could have done at home with all the cash that’s been pissed away overseas. We could fix every old bridge and pothole in the country and still have more than we would know what to do with.

      2. True, Germany has a surplus of 250 billion and won’t spend a penny on their military but chucks 30 bill at the rapefugees.

        1. With all that surplus they could buy enough hardware to keep the Russians busy for years and we wouldn’t even have to get involved.

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